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TheOldPro

Ever Heard of a Bump Stock?

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..... You can empty a mag pretty quick, but what are you hitting.

I know what he was hitting.....the ground, the fence behind the backstop, and only rarely the actual 12" X 12" target I had put up for him. And that was from 25 yards! He and my daughter are not rich by any means, so I don't get it at all. Hopefully he will outgrow the need for something like that one day. He's only about 45. The only thing I got out of it was a gallon bag of .223 cases and the urge to never let that happen on my range again.

 

OP

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Have heard of them , never have tried them . Waste of ammo to me . Being an old M60 gunner , auto fire is not that impressive to me .

 

 

Except when it's fired in your direction!

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A friend of mine bought one of these for his grandson to put on his AR. I had a chance to fire it a few times. This is my impression. It is as "controllable" as most automatic fire can be when shot offhand with some practice and when fired in short burst. It is really not practical as you need to hold it in a certain way for it to work correctly. If you really need automatic fire, it is usually when an optimal shooting stance is a good way to get yourself killed. IMHO, this is just a gimmick that appeals to people that have never fired an automatic weapon before.

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IMHO, this is just a gimmick that appeals to people that have never fired an automatic weapon before.

Agreed.

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Be careful Jerry, you are leaning hard towards anti-gunner arguments here...."nobody needs a _______"...while I agree that he (and EVERY shooter) should be aware of what is behind their target, there is NOTHING dangerous about a bump fire stock (or a real automatic weapon) if used responsibly and in a safe location. After some practice, the accuracy and controllability will improve.

 

An AR with a bump fire stock is no more dangerous than an AR without one......the shooter may be dangerous, but the weapon is just a tool.

 

As to why anyone "needs" anything like that....two reasons......because they want one and because they can!! It is no more a "waste of money" than fireworks, golf clubs, video games, etc, etc, etc.......

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Mark, in this case I might tend to agree with the anti-gunners that nobody "needs" a bump stock, although not in the same light as they might frame it. Want, desire, covet....yes. Need? No. Two totally different verbs. And for this son-in-law, the purchase was a waste of money by my definition. He used very limited family resources to get something he "wanted" rather than "needed" at the ultimate expense of the rest of his family, meaning my daughter and my grandkids. It gets personal there, with nothing whatsoever to do with pro-gunning or anti-gunning anything. Also, you made the point that a bump stock is not dangerous in the hands of a "responsible" person. I made the point that it has a real potential to be dangerous in the hands of the wrong (irresponsible) person. On that I think we agree, the difference being the use of a positive or negative construction of the sentence. The bottom line is that what I witnessed guaranteed that for myself, I will never "want" or "need" a bump stock.

 

Jerry

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Jerry

 

An AR with a bump fire stock is not more dangerous in the hands of the "wrong" person than is any other AR, again, it is just a tool.....think about what you are saying, it is EXACTLY the same argument used by anti gunners. Psychologists and Psychiatrists would call that thought process "projecting", what that boils down to is that the person "projecting" doesn't believe they could safely use that item, so they think nobody should. I'm sure all aren't like that but many are. Then, we have what is commonly referred to as a "Fudd"........a Fudd claims to support gun rights....and he owns guns....but he secretly thinks that people shouldn't have those he doesn't "approve of".......a classic example is Jim Zumbo and his rant calling AR and AK type rifles "terrorist rifles"........yet old Jim would claim he was an unwavering supporter of the 2nd amendment......many people reading this thread would believe your post is dangerously close to that line of thinking if not well past it.

 

Your last post, sounds like you have more heartburn over the "waste of money" by your son-in-law than anything else.....that really has nothing to do with the bump fire stock......the same could be true if he went out and bought a new set of golf clubs, a boat, a motorcycle or a stack of lottery tickets, none of which are necessities. People spend money on things they don't "need" and can't afford every day, and everybody has a different opinion as to what constitutes a waste of money.......My brother has spent thousands of dollars on fly fishing equipment and goes on an expensive trip to yellowstone every year to catch fish that he immediately releases :unsure: .....I have absolutely no use for anything golf related, I think it is silly and a waste of time and money to pay big money to hit a little ball with an expensive stick, then chase it around a pasture trying to knock it in a hole.......and then, when they finally get it in the hole, the first thing they do is take it back out!! :D

 

 

Personally, I would rather have a bump fire toting gang member shooting at me than a guy with a single shot that KNOWS how to use it!!

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Mark, you either miss my point or are ignoring it. A bump stock is a way for someone intent on doing mass harm to get what amounts to a fully automatic weapon legally. To get a true fully automatic weapon is not easy. People who can own one have been fully vetted. I stand by my statement that nobody needs a bump stock, not that you shouldn't be able to buy one. What I don't stand by is your assertion that anyone who doesn't feel exactly the same as others do about every firearm or accessory ever made should be lumped into the category of a closet anti-gunner, or Fudd as you put it. That sounds like something the PC crowd would come up with, i.e., if you don't think the way I do, you're wrong, and we'll create an acronym to prove it. Hopefully we can avoid creating a "thought police" within the gun community, although from what you have said we may be dangerously close to already having one.

As to having "heartburn" over my son-in-law's purchase, it has everything to do with the bump stock, because that is what started this discussion. To him, it wasn't a waste of money. To me, it was. "A waste of money", even relating to guns, is a matter of opinion, and I trust the thought police will allow me mine. As to "crossing a line", I would ask who it was that drew that line you strongly hint has been crossed by me? Nobody that I know drew it, and I would suggest that as many stand on my side of the line concerning the potential for misuse as stand on the other side. Even if that is not the case, I still stand on this side with no apologies to anyone. If anyone wants to take something personal and try to universalize it, be my guest. In the future, however, tell them to try to do it without labeling. That should be beneath anyone's dignity.

 

Jerry

 

 

 

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Jerry

 

As you saw yourself, fire from a bump stock firearm is not that controllable.....aimed semi auto fire is........so, you tell me, which is more likely to inflict casualties??

 

I have a LOT of experience with full auto weapons, the legal kind......so I'm not guessing here. Do you know you can convert a semi auto AK, mini 14, m14, M1 carbine, ect into a very controllable full auto weapon with just a shoe string?? No, it's not legal, but neither is "doing mass harm" with a bump stock equipped weapon!! Having put thousands of rounds downrange through dozens of different automatic weapons, I can tell you I could do "mass harm" much more efficiently with a semi auto AR or AK.....a bump fired toy isn't even in the running! Are you more likely to accidentally hit something downrange with a "spray and pray" bump fire......maybe, but we aren't talking accidentally, we are talking intentional mass harm, aren't we?? Even with a very controllable burst fire automatic you will expend at least 2-3 rounds per target.....that's 10-15 targets per 30 round mag if the shooter has perfect accuracy......how many targets do you think the same shooter could hit with a 30 round mag with aimed semi auto fire?? The ability to throw a bunch of lead downrange quickly DOES NOT make something more effective or, to use your word, "dangerous".

 

As for you son-in-law, would you be just as irritated with him if, instead of a bump stock, he had "wasted" the money on toys for the kids or a piece of jewelry for your daughter instead of a "toy", that you don't approve of, for himself??? Toys for the kids or jewelry for your daughter aren't necessities either.....I'm not saying he should have bought the bump fire stock, I'm saying the stock really isn't the issue.....

 

The line I mentioned is the 2nd amendment.......you either support it, or you don't. If you start justifying restrictions on it, then you, by definition, support gun control....period.....and need has nothing to do with it.

 

I believe the founding fathers intended for citizens to have access to military weaponry.......I'm not talking nukes, chemical or biological weapons or anything of that nature.....I'm talking anything a single soldier would normally use. Just like the 1st amendment covers the use of communication via the internet, even though the writers could not imagine such advanced communications, the 2nd amendment covers advancements in weaponry and not just period correct muskets.....the only reason we can't buy m16s, right along with computers, at Walmart is because we have allowed our rights to be infringed.....

 

I'm NOT placing you in the category of gun control advocate or Fudd, I don't know you that well.......all I'm saying is that your post sure seems to lean that way.

 

 

And, just for the record, I do not and have never owned a bump fire stock.....and I really don't have any use for one. :D

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I have to agree with Jerry here -- particularly about the labeling -- and will venture a bit off topic here. Call me what you wish, but there are things that simply are common sense. We are all basically on the same side when it comes to the 2nd, but the labeling does more harm than good. I get the political labeling from BOTH sides as well due to my beliefs, and -- frankly -- I don't care anymore. I don't bow to any political party and don't blindly support any single platform because -- for starters -- I find great fault with both the GOP and the Democrats as well. And right now, I have no problem in saying that our state and nation are being run by a bunch of unqualified, agenda-driven morons who only care about their own priorities and not about the constituency or what's best for humanity.

 

But back to my point: I DO NOT agree that ANYONE (unlicensed) should be allowed to carry a handgun in public.

 

I DO NOT agree that ANYONE of legal age should be allowed to buy a gun, either.

 

I DO NOT condone campus carry, either, as I feel there are indeed places where guns should not be allowed, courthouses and churches coming to mind as well.

 

And I feel those who deem it necessary to sling an AK over their shoulders to go grocery shopping or to eat in a restaurant do indeed have some underlying issues -- and I wouldn't go anywhere near them and wouldn't want any of my family around them, either. Just because it is their "right" doesn't make it right -- or acceptable, for that matter. I feel the same about the bump stock.

 

On the other hand, I do not think private sales between citizens should be regulated -- again, though, with common sense applying and not selling to a minor or a known felon., But I fully agree with the NICS check for dealer sales, though it, too, is flawed as info often is missing or not provided as needed to the proper agencies. I believe that folks with felonies on their records, those who have domestic violence convictions, etc., those with documented mental health issues, etc. should not be able to go out to a gun store and buy whatever they want -- quite contrary to what the gun lobby and numerous GOP morons are pushing.

 

If that makes me an ally of the "anti" crowd in the eyes of some, then so be it. Like Jerry, I make no apologies for it.

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Mark: A few points yet that we don't agree on. First, the situation for misuse by the wrong person that I envisioned when making that statement was a crowded theater, church, etc. No aiming required...lots of casualties. Second, not liking or wanting a bump stock has nothing to do with my support of the 2nd Amendment. Your "either you accept it or you don't" vision of the 2nd Amendment is untenable even to you, or should be. With absolutely no restrictions, you are saying it is okay for my 8 year old granddaughter to own a fully automatic weapon and use it...she is a citizen, after all. And you are also saying that a proven mentally disabled and unstable person, or a known terrorist, or a murderer released from prison has the absolute right to that fully automatic or any other weapon. A "single soldier" could also make good use of hand grenades....you want the population to be able to get them, too? They are definite weapons, and I'm not talking "nukes" or "biological weapons" either, although it's only by your definition that I exclude them, too. The fact is, no rights, not even the 2nd Amendment, are absolute. Certain religions believe if you don't join them, they have every right to kill you. By your definition of "either you accept it or you don't", the 1st Amendment gives them the right to do so, and we should support their right to kill us with no consequences. That would be absolute freedom. I could go on, but I won't. Common sense, which the framers of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution had, should tell us that no restrictions on anything does not result in anarchy, it is anarchy. The Bill of Rights was created out of necessity through compromise and restraint. We should not expect that their doing so then ended the need for that now. We are expected to continue their example cautiously and with restraint and with common sense. That's the least we can do for our Founding Fathers' efforts. If something is a bad idea, we should have the right to call it what it is, at least in our view of the matter, without being ostracized or marginalized for doing so. That is within the spirit of what the Framers did. And until the "Freedom of Speech" portion of the 1st Amendment is rescinded, I will continue to voice what I deem to be bad ideas, the 2nd Amendment notwithstanding. Let those who wish to interpret my intentions negatively do so, it matters not to me. The "Never Compromise on Anything" crowd has a lot more than me to worry about.

 

Jerry

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Gentlemen, we are venturing into the political arena. Let's get back on topic...........

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To get back on topic........if I was inclined to "shoot up a movie theater" and needed a gun to cause the biggest amount of casualties, I wouldn't choose a bump fire stocked weapon, I would buy a semi auto shotgun, cut the barrel short, add an extended magazine and fill it full of buckshot........I guarantee you I could kill and injure more people with that shotgun than you could possibly kill or injure with a bump fire equipped AR in the same amount of time.......better yet, I could just wait until people were waiting in line and mow them down with a truck.....wouldn't even have to leave the comfort and safety of the seat!!

 

Bobby, I don't carry a bump fire stocked AR to church, but I ALWAYS carry a concealed handgun........and I have never had the urge to shoot up the place!! While it is illegal to carry a bump fire stocked AR, or any other weapon on a college campus here, it is perfectly legal for me to drive into the college parking lot with my concealed handgun.......I have never been able to figure out why I am responsible enough to carry the handgun in the car onto the campus, but I cease to be responsible enough to carry it when I step out of the car???

 

As far as needing a license to carry a bump fire stocked AR or even a handgun......is it really a right if you have to beg the government to allow you to exercise it?? What part of shall not be infringed includes the requirement to be licensed?? Sometimes, Freedom means other people get to do things you don't particularly like......but the fact that you don't like it doesn't make it wrong and it certainly doesn't justify restrictions.

 

All I can say is I'm very glad you guys aren't making the laws........

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Buy what you like . I have more weapons of various sorts than I can use most times and all the gadgets that go with them or a lot of them . I just have no need for some . It is whatever blows your skirt up . If you like it , buy it . Is there a practical use for it , maybe not . Like my brother questioned why I needed a surpressor , cos I wanted one , liked it bought another . Personal choice and preference . I do agree with Mark , that I as a responsible adult , who has also served in the military should have the right to carry where ever I like . To me it makes about as much sense as having to have a Hunters Safety Course to hunt out of state , when I just got out of the Army , go figure . Like I told Billie I was looking for a CZ Bobwhite shotgun in .410 or 28 gauge , she said what do you need it for , then she said , oh it is not a need , it is a want and she is right . Buy what makes you happy .

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Mark, I have one final challenge for you. Go back through my posts in this thread, and do a quote on me showing where I stated that it should be illegal for anyone to buy a bump stock. I'm not talking about where I said that I didn't like them, which I don't, or that I thought that they were a waste of money for my son-in-law, which in my opinion it was. Just where I plainly said that they should be illegal. Not what you have tried to make my opinions out to be, but what was actually said without further interpretation by you. I'll look for your posting of my quote tomorrow. I look forward to seeing it. Besides, I think Bobcat is getting a little weary of this, and frankly so am I. So I'll give you the final stage, right after I see the quote.

 

OP

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